Talking But Not Communicating – Why Are We Still Doing That?
No Vacation Required
Why We Talk But Don’t Communicate (And How to Fix It)
We’ve all heard that communication is the key to a healthy relationship, but few of us actually know how to use it. We move past the tired cliches to discuss the logistics of how we speak, listen, and stay connected. This episode is an invitation to stop just talking and start focusing on the quality and mechanics of your interactions.
From a surprising lesson at a doctor’s office to a breakdown of what happens when the brain becomes "flooded," this conversation explores why so many of us communicate poorly even when we mean well. Whether you’re navigating a multi-decade marriage (like us) or a complex team dynamic at work, learn how to trade assumptions for inquiry and "talking at" for "listening with."
Onward and Inward,
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CHAPTERS:
(00:00) Why are we still doing that?
(01:08) Mind Share: Why Kent’s doctor doesn't have news on her phone
(03:12) Why are we still communicating poorly?
(10:42) The assumption trap: Checking in vs. assuming
(14:00) Arguing in good faith: Are you communicating to win?
(15:30) Understanding "The Flood": Communicating through overwhelm
(21:39) The secret distinguisher: Listening vs. talking
(24:02) Worth the Time: Helen Harper series review
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Quality over Quantity: Communication isn't just about the volume of words; it’s about clarity, directness, and ensuring your message is actually received.
The Good Faith Test: Healthy dialogue requires an intention to understand rather than a desire to "win" the argument or bully a partner into submission.
Respecting the "Flood": Recognizing when someone is scientifically unable to process information due to emotional overwhelm is vital for preventing unproductive conflict.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Strengths and Personality Assessments: https://novacationrequired.com/services
Episode – Treating Regulation Like It’s Not Critical to Our Survival: https://youtu.be/8ogo9ODOsxg
Episode: The Power of Discernment: Choosing What Deserves Your Energy: https://youtu.be/gAKYpFYe0a0
Episode: Waiting for "Ready": https://youtu.be/1hsXXmReeQk
Hal & Harper (TV Series): https://letterboxd.com/film/hal-harper/
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Caanan: Communication is key is the ultimate relationship cliche. We've heard it so often that we act like we know what it means, when in fact few of us actually do. Today, we're moving past the platitudes to talk about the logistics. What does healthy communication actually look like? Let's get into the mechanics of how we speak, listen, and ultimately stay connected.
Kent: Welcome to the No Vacation Required podcast, where we break down tired traditions and outdated thinking by asking the question, why are we still doing that? It's all about building a life you don't need a break from, being more present and fulfilled, and showing up in a complicated world that needs your voice and unique talents. Okay, so I want to tell you what's on my mind. And we haven't pre-talked about this. And I just, I'm looking at you across through my microphone. And through your microphone. And I want to see your reaction. So I had a doctor's appointment, as you know, last week. And, you know, wanting to be a good person, I said, hey, are you taking care of yourself in this troubled time? Like, what do you do, doctor? I thought, it's, my Harvard-educated Dr. I'm going to get the best tips. What do you do and how are you doing? And she's like, well, you know, I'm not doing great. How can you be? But she's like, my big thing is I don't have social media or news or any of that on my devices. And I was like, check my blood pressure again. I think it has skyrocketed. How do you not have news? I mean, I didn't say this to her. I acted all like, of course. Give me my sucker and I'll leave. But I was in my mind. I was like, wait, what? You're out? Kenting, Kent? So I don't know. I don't have an answer or a thought. I was just sort of impressed slash bewildered.
Caanan: Okay, that's, well, this is a good time to do it because this is mind share. It's kind of intense. What are you? What are you bringing up? Okay. Yeah. Who has news on their phone? Good Lord. Does she not read the news?
Kent: No, I think she reads the news, but you know, and no, she's not 78. She's young, vibrant, whatever. And I just, I don't know, I kind of dug it. Maybe this is on my mind because I'm jealous that she out Kent and Canon, Kent and Canon, right?
Caanan: All you have to do is delete the news from your phone and you can be back on track.
Kent: Yeah, I wonder if the time it is people listening to our podcast. She's like, oh, I don't have all that junk on my devices. And I was like, excuse me, you don't have all of what junk on your devices.
Caanan: So here's the question. Why are we still communicating poorly? I know everybody knows communication is the key to a healthy relationship. Right? I'm thinking about watching a documentary and there's two 80-year-old people on a couch talking about their 60 years of marriage. And their advice is always communication is how we stay together.
Kent: Yeah. I think about, and I think we've said it before in this podcast, one time very specifically, but this has happened a lot when people have been like, you have such a great relationship. Please give me tips. I know you're probably going to say communication.
Caanan: We've been together almost 28 years. So we do have, we do have a little experience with this. Go ahead.
Kent: Since 6th grade and 4th grade. It's a really cute story. It involves Easter baskets and whatever. We'll get into that. Yeah, and it's a weird thing because people are like, God, don't tell me communication. I know that. I got that down or whatever. But this is so real. And when we decided this was the topic of this podcast, I was thinking about when we were with a big meetup with a bunch of our running friends and there's singles and couples in there. And people tend to talk about their form and running stuff. It's very fun. So there's this couple and one person in the couple was basically talking about a hamstring pull and having gone to a physical therapist for the last three weeks. So we're all sitting there, Can and I sitting there, looking across, and his husband says, oh, I didn't know that. That's great. And I'm sitting there probably looking like I did when my doctor said, I don't do the news on my phone, where I'm like, don't let your face give it away. Yeah, but I mean, we talk about this kind of thing all the time. In a recent episode, we got into this relationship stuff kind of deeply. But it blows my mind. I know people look at us as the, pinnacle of a bonded relationship. But as we talked about in that episode, some people do not love that. But I looked across, I was like thinking in my brain because a group setting, you know, like this is not normal. This is not healthy.
Caanan: It's such an adorable story. What? Yes, it's a badge of honor. It's a badge of honor. How does this person's husband not know they're going for acupuncture?
Kent: Physical therapy. Even if it's in passing, I mean, something like this. So, you know, it's weird. This actually has nothing to do with this episode, because we are going to elevate the conversation. But I say this story, I told Canaan, the minute you suggested doing this episode, I thought, this is kind of going to be my mantra, because I think of like, what is going on with people? And this is something I know we've talked about so many times in the work we do, especially so much boils down to communication. It's true. And let me just say this loud and clear. Yes, we know you are communicating. Congratulations. But you need to start asking, oh, what am I actually communicating? Yeah, so people throw out the term communication is key. And as you said in the intro, it's become such a mantra that we really don't know what it means. Communication is key. Yeah, it's key, but it has to be meaningful. And I think the reason this is such a critical point, especially of the work we do, is because people are focused on that. They know the importance of that, even if they're not doing at it. Like, I wish I spoke, I wish I talked to my boss more. I wish I communicated with my spouse more. I wish we spent more time together. But even with that, people are not thinking about the quality of the communication. And I know I said this recently in a podcast, thinking of our client work, you know, when we're talking with somebody about a situation and we as individuals tend to have a lot of thoughts about things. And I kind of laugh when we're going through that. Okay, does he know that? Does she know that? Okay, this is great. So what happened when you, it's always like, oh, no, I haven't said this. Right? It's like, they should know this. I said this two years ago when I got hired. Or, you know, things like that. No, I just kind of hint. Like it would be, I wouldn't know how to say this to her. So we sort of do these things that make it clear. And it's just like, this is the problem. Yeah, you don't have a communication problem because yeah, you're communicating A lot, but it's a quality of communication issue. So when we really talked about this episode, we talked about, doing a podcast on communication is like doing a podcast on travel. Like there are so many things you can talk about. So we really want to keep this focused on inspiring you to think of the quality of communication. And we're doing that because these last four episodes have really been about foundational things, things that we feel are foundational, that come up in our world, in our work a lot. We've recently talked about, for instance, regulation, these foundational things, go back and listen to the last three episodes in concert with this, give you kind of a basic framework from which to continue growing and thriving. So thinking about yeah, I'm communicating, but what's the quality of my communication? Is it doing the job? Am I being clear? Am I being direct? Am I actually saying what I mean? Am I saying what I feel? Am I saying what I need?
Caanan: Physical therapy, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, girl, that's not communicating. Yeah, I actually, I took some notes down. I mean, like you said, we could talk about this. We could have an entire podcast just about communication. But I took some points down that I think will help you see what we mean when we talk about the quality of communication. And the first is, don't make assumptions. This is kind of what you were saying, Kent, with this. this example of somebody just assuming that because they're talking or because they're doing little things to try to subtly say something, say in air quotes something, that they're assuming the other person knows what's going on. And that's just silly. But there's this other, this flip side, and we see this even among friends and family who are in, healthy relationships who have been together a long time. Because they know each other, they tend to believe they know what the other person is saying without actually checking to see if they're understanding their partner. correctly.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting. Like a couple years ago, a couple friends of ours were, you remember this, were in kind of severe distress. And one person in the couple was just working more. And they felt like that was telling their partner, like, well, I'm not spending as much time with them. So they're getting the hint that I'm not happy. And it's like, this is so dysfunctional in such poor, air quotes, communication that it makes me sad. I could never say these things, but I'm just working more. And that's telling them that I'm not happy. So making an assumption that because I'm doing this thing, yeah, they're getting the hint. Oh, and they were getting the hint, but not in the right way. Because they knew they had no context around why this other person was working more. So yeah, I love that you wrote that down. Don't make assumptions.
Caanan: Yeah. Yeah, and I just want to add to that. Like we, like I said, we've been together 28 years. We do know each other very well because we communicate very well. But there are still times where we're having a conversation and we are each saying very different things than the other person believes we're saying. So when we get to the point where we actually check in and say, like, hold on a second, are you, what is it you're actually saying? Am I understanding this correctly? And I'll have assumed the entirely wrong thing.
Kent: Yeah, well, and I'm thinking of just this week. You've been so great at this specifically. Just this week, you made a big proclamation on something, you know, happening in your world that impacts me. And I was like, oh yeah, okay, that's great. I'm so glad I know that. And then the next day, you took me out and I hike because you completely reversed course and you knew, you knew it was important. Like, I've got to really communicate well or Kent is going to be like, what in the hell is going on? So we take this seriously in our relationship. Like, We have to be precise and ensure the other person knows. This is where I'm coming from. Okay. I'm excited to hear your others.
Caanan: But not in the right way. Yes. Yes. Okay. Don't make assumptions. The other I wrote down is always argue slash communicate in good faith, right? So never communicate with your partner to win. And I think so much of us go into dialogue thinking, my sole point here is not understanding. It is to win an argument and I am going to essentially bully my partner into losing.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know you were going to, I don't know what you were going to say. And so I'm thinking the example I popped in last time, actually it works here as well. It works in both places. The friend was not arguing in good faith. Arguing by withholding time, I'm going to work more. That'll show the other person. So, well, I guess a lot of communication fails are going to fail on different levels. So I'm just seeing how the example I shared with you is a failure here too. It's another way to check yourself. Like, am I doing this in good faith? Am I avoiding this person in good faith? I don't think you are.
Caanan: Oh, that's an interesting take. Yeah. So, I guess a different way to say that is check your intention. If you're communicating to win, that is not communicating in good faith and it's super unhealthy. Okay, my third one, and this is kind of like 401 level, is you can't effectively communicate when one or the other of you is flooded. So if you're not familiar with that term, it's like, I can't even think of the science of it. It's like your hippocampus is flooded or something. Your amygdala is flooded and you can't process information effectively. Okay, go look it up. I'm not going to get into the science. But it's very easy especially when people are dysregulated to get flooded, to get overwhelmed. And then you are not having a conversation with that person. You're having a conversation with that person's like monkey brain. And they can't hear you. They can't process information. So just stop doing it. If you see somebody is overwhelmed, stop.
Kent: Overwhelmed, yeah. Flooded, overwhelmed, yeah. Amygdala, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this reminds me of, oh, a lot of our consulting projects where the leader of a group is kind of mad because I made it clear, whatever. It's like, yeah, what? Everybody didn't hear you because all they could see was your overwhelm. What you communicated was overwhelm. So these points you think you made so well did not translate because everybody on your team just heard your overwhelm. You are the boss. It made them scared and they went into scarcity. What do I need to do to keep my job mindset? Yeah. When you're overwhelmed by any kind of emotion, sadness, anger, loneliness, vulnerability, you cannot effectively.
Caanan: Yeah. Yeah. No, and I'll make it kind of personal. I'm not going to get into any details right now. We will at some point in this podcast, but I am somebody who can get easily flooded in periods of crisis. Or if Kent and I are having a conversation and it's somehow triggering, I can get flooded, I can get easily overwhelmed. And it makes it very hard, actually impossible for us to have a healthy dialogue. So in those cases, I just have, I've now learned that I have to just tell Kent, I'm flooded. I can't do it. I can't talk about this right now. And he knows what that means. But The key here is sort of be generous with the person you're talking to. If it seems like they can't process the information you're giving them, give them a break because they literally, scientifically, may not be able to.
Kent: So scientifically, scientifically impossible. Your best investment is knowing yourself. With YouFinder, you'll uncover your natural strengths, talents, and values through a quick assessment. You'll then get personalized insights to help you on your path. Get started at novacationrequired.com. So thinking of quality communication and thinking about why are we still communicating so poorly? Think about how you're communicating. Are you really communicating in a quality way or are you just using words? So on the most base level, thinking about that couple I talked about earlier, our running friends, are you even doing the baseline? Are you communicating what is going on? Or are you just spending some time together with, be it a partner or a family member, friend, whoever? How are you showing up? What are you doing? Are you telling people what's going on with you? And then, of course, raising the bar, which is what we're here to do, to say, am I really doing what I need to do to contribute to this interaction, again, with anybody in an embodied way? Or am I just phoning it in? I'm just getting by. And I think in our experience, when people are faced with this, it's a lot of the things you said, Kanan, like, oh my gosh, I'm making assumptions and I'm actually getting angry because I'm coming from a place of making assumptions. I'm not arguing in good faith. I love that you brought that up. Like, I'm not bringing quality communications. I'm communicating to win or moving in a way to win, comporting myself in a way to win. And I think that those two things alone lead to a lot of emotion, a lot of overwhelm. And again, if that's the case, you're not communicating what you want to be communicating because you are so distracted by your overwhelm, your flooding. And that's all the other person can see. So it's not communication. It's not that communication is key. It's that quality communication is key. And paying attention to these things, assumptions, good faith. Are you overwhelmed? Paying attention to these things is a starting point to Discern. Okay, am I communicating well?
Caanan: You know, to baseline this, it's sort of the difference between I'm talking a lot and I'm communicating. And a lot of people believe talking is communicating. And in fact, that's not communication at all. Of course, you know that when you hear me say it. But think about the times where you believe you're communicating, but actually you're just talking. The difference between talking to somebody and talking with somebody? Oh, and I'll tell you the, here's the big secret distinguisher here. And it's not talking. It's actually listening. Groundbreaking. I know. Wait for season three, which is just about listening. No. So really, when you're communicating, pay way more attention to what you're hearing and what you're asking than what you're saying. And pay attention to the quality of the communications you're having with people. And you'll start to notice that few people actually ask questions and they rarely act like they've heard what you've said because they're so intent on talking. So it's just a lot of people waiting to talk and very few people actually listening or asking questions. So quality communication, say what you mean, don't make assumptions, ask a lot of questions and listen. And then, you know, you elevate your quality of communication and then you can be the people, the old people on the couch in the documentary getting asked how they've been together 60 years, and you can say plainly, communication.
Kent: Yeah. Boy. Yeah, no, we said we weren't going to do this. is such a broad topic. This is its own broad topic, but yes. Yeah, no, listening is important here too, because right, you're not communicating in a quality way if you're not listening. Yeah, and then you'll become like us who so know that this is a big problem. you're not bringing quality communication, but now I'm thinking about you, Canaan, bringing up not listening, that then you'll go to the doctor and you'll start asking your doctor questions because you so realize that asking anybody you're in communication with questions is a huge part of communication. Today is the can't stop thinking about edition of the No Vacation Required podcast. Worth the time. Yeah. worth the time for me is the series Helen Harper. I cannot stop thinking about it. And it's best not to, it's best not to say much. You know, it's challenging in that it's very emotional, very driven by deep and intense themes, but I can't stop thinking about it because It's unusual. It's handled in a very unusual way. And for us, that ended up being a good way. But one of the criteria for us, because we're consuming so much content, we love the awe of a great book, movie, show, whatever, big factor in our evaluation is, this an interesting perspective? Is it the same old recycled blah? This is such a fresh perspective that I was like on the internet, wait, what just happened? What does this mean? And it's just beautifully done. Yeah, well, I mean, and it is arty, period. You know, and I mean, we always kind of face this when we're like, What are you watching? And it's like, Legion of Doom 4, right? And I'm like, oh gosh. I'm so not with it. What are you watching? It's like, oh, Helen Harper. It's this beautiful, Sundance Born series by a neat, so it gets a little like preciousy. Yeah. Thanks for listening to the No Vacation Required podcast. For more information, including services designed to help you build a life you don't need a break from, check out novacationrequired.com. And if you found this information helpful, please subscribe.
Caanan: Yeah. Yeah. Does it sound too arty if I say the treatment is? The treatment is extraordinary. I love Legion of Doom 4. I'm like, I mean, I'll just say this. It's so interesting. Helen Harper is so interesting that it's a TV show that actually has its own letterboxed. And if you know what that means, you know, that's rare and weird. But it is not easy TV. It's the kind of TV that makes you then want to watch The Traders, which is what Ken talked about last week, because you need a little mental regulation, but it's so beautiful and it's so interesting. And Cooper Raif, I'm just going to say we stan a new queen.