Stop Making A 5 Year Plan – Why Are We Still Doing That?
No Vacation Required
Beyond the Five-Year Plan: Knowing Yourself in a Rapidly Changing World
Why are we still asking "where do you want to be in five years?" We dismantle this tired corporate tradition, arguing that in a world of rapid technological shifts and AI, five-year plans are often impossible to answer and paralyzing to maintain. We explore how over-identifying with a career role can make us feel out of control when the world gets unpredictable.
This episode offers a shift from objective goal-setting to a focus on "unified self" and internal agency. Learn why the most important question isn't about where you'll be, but how you want to feel. We introduce Energy Mapping, a practical tool to help you stop "blowing up your life" and start making values-aligned decisions that build a life you don't need a break from.
Onward and Inward,
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CHAPTERS:
(00:00) Why are we still doing that?
(01:12) The five-year plan: A tired corporate tradition
(02:52) Why technology and AI make long-term plans obscure
(03:49) The right question: How do I want to feel?
(06:58) Breaking out of a role-specific mindset
(10:06) Shifting the locus of control: Self-agency vs. external circumstances
(11:10) Energy Mapping: A strategy for daily fulfillment
(14:32) Navigating change without "blowing up your life"
(17:12) You don't need a new life; you need to know yourself in this one
(21:03) Pause, prioritize, and practice
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Feeling Over Planning: Because the world is rapidly shifting, focus on how you want your days to feel rather than specific job titles or milestones.
The Energy Map: Use a green, yellow, and red color-coding system to track which daily activities energize you and which ones constrict your sense of self.
Unified Self: Avoid siloing your life into "career" and "personal." Asking how you want to feel forces you to look at yourself as a whole person across all roles.
Fulfillment is a Way of Being: Everyday fulfillment isn't a finish line or a future date; it is found in how you show up today and tomorrow.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Kent: Welcome to the No Vacation Required podcast where each episode we ask, why are we still doing that? Building a life you don't need a break from starts by letting go of templated ideas of success. And letting go of templated ideas of success requires each of us to ask, why are we still doing that? Why are we still doing that to the actions we've put on autopilot in the interest of pleasing family, fitting in with friends, and aligning with the dream of the planet.
So we're talking about how knowing ourselves changed everything today. And it's so the truth, isn't it? The work we put into knowing ourselves as individuals and then capitalizing on that to find the overlap and to build the coupledom that we have.
And interestingly, we were thinking about this topic, working with a corporate client that was still relying on what we think is a tired tradition for employee development and kind of a way to increase longevity or what they thought was a way to increase longevity. And that is having people routinely answer, where do you want to be in five years?
Caanan: Yeah, right in five year plan question.
Kent: And they used to be like a legit question and it's still a legit question, but more and more the reality on the ground, the people in this company's work group and the individuals we work with day after day feel like that question is way too obscure and impossible to answer just because the current environment in which we're living in doesn't really support a solid answer to that.
Number one, and we've been saying this for about a decade now, a decade plus, technology is changing so rapidly. Jobs are changing so rapidly. Look at AI alone. I don't even need to say anything more than that. The norm of being employed for long periods of time is just something that doesn't really happen anymore. So when people think about what do I want to be in five years, they think there's so many things that can change in five years.
Caanan: There's so many unknowns. Like you said, AI is a perfect example of your health. The entire, not your industry, but the entire world can flip on its head in five years. Two years, much less five years. So yeah, it's an out of date question.
Kent: Yeah, what this got us thinking about, and interestingly, we had written a Substack post for June, go check it out, about how knowing ourselves changed everything. I thought, like, how do you even know how to answer that? If it's 1990, 2010, 2025, if you don't know yourself, and that's our tip and tool for everything is the only way you can answer questions like that is if you know yourself.
And it just so happens that we feel like, what do you want to be doing in five years? What do you want to be doing in 10 years is the wrong question. Canon, you always get at introducing a new way of looking at that or a way to start exploring. Let's talk about what you're becoming maybe and not what you want to be in five years.
Caanan: As we said, it's difficult now to answer that question. It's always been a difficult question. What do you want to do in five years? Where do you want to be in five years? But as we said, in these trying times and these rapidly shifting times, it is impossible. And so we completely issue the question, as we say in that Substack post. And we want people to focus more, as we did ourselves way back when, on how do I want to feel in five years?
Kent: Yeah.
Caanan: And actually, how do I want to feel in one year? How do I want to feel now?
Kent: What am I becoming?
Caanan: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What am I becoming? But it's that question that is a much better guide for helping you identify the steps you need to take and the values aligned, decisions you need to be making that ultimately puts you in the place that you really do want to be in five years, even though that question is impossible to answer.
Kent: Yeah, it's funny. Whenever we ask people, let's talk more about how you want to feel, like what's working, what's not working. People instantly light up and have a better response than where do you want to be in five years? But it's funny because they're still left with this sense of, I'm questioning the world right now. I don't know how I feel right now, but clients, friends want to know that. That's something that feels accessible to them. So we do a lot of work around this.
Caanan: Yeah, something just pops into my head here about this tired, where do you want to be in five-year question? And it's that was really standard in the corporate environment. And I think people really adopted this idea of looking at their life and where do I want to be in five years and having this very sort of objective goal mindset. So when the world gets crazy as it is right now, and people want to have a sense of control over their lives, they go to that tired model and try to try to figure out how they can.
Kent: Make it work or come up with an answer.
Caanan: Come up with it so that they can feel a sense of control and they're moving towards something.
Kent: It's funny you should say that though, because yes, but it makes people feel claustrophobic and suffocated. Like, you know, as we talk about so often in our podcasts, like, oh no, I'm behind. I don't know the answer to this question. What do I do? Now I feel even worse than I did before.
Caanan: Which is why, as we said in that post, that really is the wrong question. The right question is, how do I want to feel? And using that as your guidepost.
Kent: Yeah, so let's in the next segment talk about a great strategy for approaching this in a better way.
Caanan: So before we get into providing some solutions and tips here, I want to touch back on the reason that where do you want to be in five years question is so problematic.
Kent: You can't let it go. We said we weren't going to talk about this. Yeah.
Caanan: But it struck me that this is a question that keeps you in a very role-specific mindset. Mostly your career role.
Kent: Right, because it's employers that ask this.
Caanan: And it's the mindset you get in when you're asking yourself this. But the beauty of how do I want to feel is you cannot answer that question without taking a look at your unified self wholesome. As we always say.
Kent: You have many roles.
Caanan: You have many roles, but there's only one you. And so the beauty of how do I want to feel, you cannot answer that question in a siloed way.
Kent: Because when you think about how you want to feel, who you are, what you want to be, what you're becoming, you automatically think of all roles. And that's why asking that question is so great, because sometimes we need things to snap us out of this identification with career.
I just saw a friend's post on LinkedIn. They've taken a new job and it's like, oh, the places I can go with this job in the next five years. And I thought like, yeah, but so much can happen in that time. And there was just such this identification with this role, which is great. We all want to be upwardly mobile, but people get tied to identification with career, especially of course, younger people. And then it becomes the basis of their identity. So yeah, what Canaan's talking about, like asking how you want to feel, keeps things more grounded.
Caanan: Grounded and comprehensive. And I just want to realize this fact before you get to this great tip, I want to wrap this back to what you were saying earlier. If you are over identified with your career, as so many people are, especially in the United States in our culture, and the world is as uncertain as it is now, and things are changing as quickly as they are now, so much so that asking the question, why do I want to be in five years is paralyzing. Paralyzing and impossible to answer.
Kent: Yeah.
Caanan: Well, what does that say about being over-identified with your role? There's no way to be certain that you'll have that job. For sure. And yet, we all know this. We all know how tenuous everything is. And yet we still have this really old school idea of career trajection and longevity, and we still over-identify with our careers. So I'm going to say it again, asking, how do I want to feel, breaks you out of that mindset and into a more comprehensive one you way of thinking about your life.
Kent: Yeah, this is interesting too, because for all the years and years we've been doing the tip we're going to talk about now, I've just been thinking like in this day and age, this is really a locus of control issue. And that's what people are seeking now is more of a sense of control in the good sense of the word, self-control, self-agency. And shifting out of that mindset, why people have that kind of smile on their face even though they're lost in the midst of this question, it feels warm to them because it feels like more of a sense of control.
Whereas this, what title do you want to have in five years? What's your job going to be in five years? Where do you want to be in five years? Can feel so out of your control because on some level, you're thinking about all those extenuating circumstances, not the least of which is your employer still going to be there? Are they still going to have you there? Is your job going to be outsourced to AI?
It's a control thing. And people, we want to feel more control right now. So what we have a lot of people do, we've talked about it before on podcasts, but there's a resurgence in the positive vibration with this because of current conditions in the world. And that's energy mapping. And it's this brilliant, so simple, it almost seems ridiculous exercise of just easing your... calendar, app. Some people like to use a notepad, whatever you want to do, where you're just chronicling what you're doing in a day and you're assigning how you've spent time.
A green, yellow or a red highlight. Green for things that felt energizing. Yeah, we always tend to say, if it feels like something where you feel like your time is being cut short doing it, it's a green highlight.
Caanan: Yeah. If you can lose yourself in it, it's a green highlight.
Kent: Yeah. Yellow things are neutral and red things are things that immediately felt like, I don't mind doing this, but I want to get it done. Or I do mind doing this and I want to get it done. Or just constricting in your brain or your body. Those are signs that something is a red highlight. And then no surprise, what you do is of course, tabulate this for, we recommend a minimum of two weeks.
Caanan: Yeah.
Kent: Actually two weeks period is ideal. And then you're simply inventorying what's a green, what's yellow, and what's red.
Caanan: What's so remarkable about this is, yes, it's very simple, but the impact far outweighs the effort to do it because so many of us and Kent and I have been in this very position, it's the precursor to the life, the no vacation required life we built, is you're not attuned to where your energy is going in any given moment.
You're not paying attention to what energizes you and what depletes you and what makes your body feel tense. And what feels aligned with your values. We just don't move through the world like that naturally. So bringing your attention to this with a very simple tool. And if you need help with it, you can get a worksheet at our website, novacationrequired.com. This helps you bring your attention to that. It helps you, as the title says, energy map your time and really highlights how you are spending your time. And for most people, it's sadly on a lot of things that are very draining and not very much time on things that are energizing and values aligned.
Kent: Yeah, and I mean, back to this Substack post that we wrote about like most everything good happened because we know ourselves. It's just providing a framework for you to have the ability to start making positive change. And the beautiful thing about this, one of the big issues that people have with change is of course it scares them to death. They don't want to lose their job. It's the only job they have now. So how do I grow and learn and develop, but also keep the job I have and not, we call it not blowing up your life.
The beautiful thing about this is the total recognition tool. So you're recognizing this and you're realizing like if your work tasks are yellow and or red, then you need to start moving toward work that is more fulfilling. Could be a little tweak, could be a sidestep, a job enrichment thing, or it could be moving towards something completely new, training towards something new, but you're at the same time expanding the things that are yellow with potential for green and definitely the green things. You're just able to figure out what it is that makes you a whole person?
Caanan: Let me ask you a question because I think listeners will have this question and this could be really helpful. So if I'm doing my energy mapping and I'm looking at a task that I don't enjoy doing, it doesn't feel good to me, but cerebrally, I might give it a green because it's moving me toward something I want, like a promotion, right?
Kent: Yeah.
Caanan: That if I'm really paying attention to myself and, and honoring how it feels.
Kent: Yeah.
Caanan: That is not in fact a green task. Is that correct?
Kent: Yeah, that's, this is something that comes up with people all the time. Green has to feel pretty unburdened. Meaning back to the core thing we said, you want to feel like you could keep doing it. When you're giving something a green, you're like, oh, I could have done that forever. I could have read forever, hiked forever. I could have worked on that work project forever. So if there's any of those concession mindset things, it's certainly a yellow, but it's not a green. Green, you want to be able to look at and think, I have no question about that being green.
Caanan: I actually want to read something from that June post, because I think this will be helpful for any of you out there who have not read it. It's 3 points related to this topic. So let me just jump in here. Start with how you want your days to feel.
Kent: Oh, wait, I want you to back up. I love the line before.
Caanan: Oh, go ahead.
Kent: You don't need a new life. You need to know yourself in this one.
Caanan: Oh, yeah.
Kent: Which is what this is all about.
Caanan: Yes. Okay, keep. You don't need a new life. You need to know yourself in this one. Isn't that so nice, isn't it?
Kent: Is. I was like, don't skip that part.
Caanan: Yeah. Anyway, so start with how you want your days to feel. Big changes often begin with small questions. Don't wait for a master plan. Follow the feeling. You don't need to fix yourself. That's a really nice one. You just need to know yourself.
Kent: Yeah.
Caanan: That's the difference between chasing more and choosing better. And then the life you want isn't out there. Emphasis on there. It's in how you show up today, tomorrow, and the day after that. Everyday fulfillment isn't a finish line. It's a way of being.
Kent: Yeah, I want to jump in here and just talk about how this speaks to the moment. So much of the client work we're doing has shifted drastically in the last decade, and especially in the last couple of years and very specifically in this year, 2025, where everything seems like it is falling apart. And we always tell people to do exactly what we do, which is the more confounding all of that seems and the more uncertain it all seems, the more angering that all seems, the more you just need to be doing reparative things internally to move forward.
And we just had this massive talk with some clients about this topic, just saying we're feeling very fortified because for all that we perceive to be uneasy out in the world, we have even more things going on that are all about things that stem from that energy mapping exercise. We always say to people, rule number one, we have a lot of rule number ones, but one of them is you've got to have something going on. You've got to be looking ahead to something that is about you or your coupledom or your tightest circle, your family. And that can outweigh so much of the hardship.
Yes, there's uncertainty in all of that, but you're doing something, you're taking steps, and that, Canaan, you're reminding me in this talk today, is what people want, is that sense of control.
Caanan: Is the sense of control.
Kent: Yeah, so that, this is just a piece. Energy mapping is just a piece that we're using to talk about how how knowing ourselves changed everything. And it's at the core of the client work we do. No fancy gimmicks, no high cost this or that, or protein formulas, or yeah, or whatever. It's knowing yourself.
And I want to be sure you check out the new tools we're offering. Funny, speaking of this, it's like the more tumultuous things get externally, the more we as individuals and a couple bear down and push the things that we're doing and doing well forward. So we've enhanced and grown the tools that we're providing. So be sure to not only continue checking out the posts we do on Substack, and of course, these, why are we still doing that podcasts?
Be sure you check out our everyday fulfillment strand also on Substack because we wanted to give people a way to have kind of what we're talking about today, micro things, and we broke it down into days, to steps you can do to just feel like you're moving forward. You're pausing, you're prioritizing, and then you're practicing. So go check all that out on Substack as well.
Caanan: To bring it back to the core of this podcast, asking the question, why are we still doing that? Why are we still asking ourselves where we want to be in five years and not asking ourselves how we want to feel in five years, in four years, right now? Yes. And using the answer to find the direction and gain the control we're seeking in these trying times.
Kent: Yep. I'm gonna repeat something you said, cuz it's maybe the best part of all this. It's not out there. It's here. It's in how you show up today, tomorrow, and the day after that. It's not a finish line. It's not a five-year thing. It's a way of being always.
Thanks for joining us for this episode of the No Vacation Required podcast. If you want a life you don't need a break from, a life where you live from a place of commitment and not comfort, join us for regular new episodes where you can always count on us to find a tired tradition and to ask, why are we still doing that? And if you're ready for change, come find us at thechangelaboratory.com.