Success Could Be In The Way Of Your Fulfillment – Everyday Fulfillment
No Vacation Required
What if the version of success you’ve been chasing isn’t actually yours?
That’s where this week’s conversation begins.
In the first episode of this fulfillment series, we talked about the dream of the planet – the collection of cultural expectations that quietly tells us how life is supposed to work. In the second episode, we explored what happens when friends, family, and other people in our lives have their own dreams for us.
This week, we’re talking about success.
The challenge is that most of us inherit an idea of success long before we ever stop to ask whether it actually fits. Bigger titles, nicer houses, expensive cars – we’re surrounded by examples of what a successful life is supposed to look like.
But what if the things we’re chasing aren’t the things we actually want?
In this episode, we share a handful of personal stories that highlight just how deeply these ideas show up in everyday life. We talk about why alternative lifestyles can be so difficult for people to imagine, why freedom often looks strange from the outside, and how easy it is to confuse someone else’s definition of success with your own.
Onward and Inward,
COMMON QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN THIS EPISODE
❓Why does conventional success often fail to bring fulfillment? Conventional success is often based on a cultural script rather than individual values. When you achieve success by someone else's definition, you may find yourself with the expected titles and possessions but lacking the freedom and flexibility that actually bring joy.
❓How does "tradition" keep people trapped in unfulfilling lives? Many people struggle to imagine a life outside of the traditional template. Even when they desire more freedom, they may believe they "can't afford it" because they are trying to achieve a different outcome without letting go of the expensive, conventional markers of success.
❓Why do people associate freedom and travel only with retirement? Our culture teaches that freedom is a reward to be enjoyed only after decades of hard work. This script assumes you must follow a rigid career path first, making it difficult for some to understand or accept that a balanced, travel-filled life can be achieved much earlier.
❓How can you tell if your goals are truly your own? To determine if your goals are truly yours, you must dig beneath the surface and ask where your desires come from. If you are pursuing something simply because it is what you are "supposed" to want, it may be an inherited cultural script rather than an authentic personal value.
❓Why do people get irritated when you live an unconventional life? Living differently can create friction because it challenges the invisible rules that others are following. When you prioritize time over money or freedom over status, it can cause those around you to question their own choices, sometimes leading to confusion or defensiveness.
CHAPTERS
(00:00) Mind Share: Beef Season 2
(01:33) The third pillar of fulfillment: Success
(10:47) Success can limit imagination
(15:00) Lack of creativity and the inability to imagine alternatives
(17:07) The hidden costs of conventional success
(21:00) Choice, conformity, and the daily work of staying aligned
(24:22) Defining success on your own terms
(28:07) Mailbag: Everyday examples of disappointing other people
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TRANSCRIPT
Kent (00:00)
Okay,
Kent (00:00)
I've got something on my mind this week because I knew we were gonna be recording about success as it relates to fulfillment and the world's idea of success and I can't stop thinking about beef the series, season two of the series.
Caanan (00:18)
Yeah, that was good.
Kent (00:20)
Yeah. So just to be clear, it doesn't have to relate to anything. I would still mention it here because I'm thinking about it, but it does relate to ideas of fulfillment and the things we do and people's ideas of success and striving. So I say if you're looking for good, interesting content, period, check out Beef season two. And if you're interested in fulfillment and
Kent (00:48)
Ideas of success, then put a star by that. Because it's great acting, Carrie Mulligan, Oscar Isaac.
Caanan (00:56)
We both remarked that it was like the white lotus, but maybe with more of a direct plot.
Kent (01:04)
One key storyline affecting multiple people. Yeah, I mean it was kind of like, wow, maybe this is better than White Lotus.
Caanan (01:13)
you're gonna get us killed. Yeah.
Kent (01:15)
Mm-hmm.
Kent (01:22)
So we're in the third episode of our fulfillment bundle.
Caanan (01:27)
Mm-hmm.
Kent (01:29)
First two were about number one, fulfillment as viewed from the dream of the planet. Right. And number two, fulfillment is viewed by the dream of everybody else, meaning that so many people live by this idea that or even the what un unknowingly
Kent (01:48)
live by the idea that they're just following the
Kent (01:51)
The general dream of the planet. And then you add to that what we talked in the second episode about what friends and family expect you to do. Yeah.
Caanan (02:01)
Other people's dreams for you.
Kent (02:04)
And it's nearly impossible to start to figure out what success means to you. Or sorry, what to what fulfillment means to you as an individual. And interestingly, we're talking about.
Kent (02:19)
success. And I just want to reiterate since this bundle of four represents the beginning of our third season where we're talking about the current version of what we really want to be talking about because we know from all the work we've done over a couple of decades in our own story that people s really struggle with fulfillment and change and
Kent (02:47)
knowing themselves and they feel lost. So we're committed in this podcast to giving the best information that we know of from again our own lived experience and our experience with c thousands of clients to give listeners things to think about as they ponder you know, what am I doing? What does fulfillment mean? Am I fulfilled? So this week we're talking about here in segment three
Kent (03:16)
The idea of success. And we were talking about this. We always do a little talk. I guess sometimes we don't, but we always do kind of a little pre-episode talk. And this topic, how the expected idea of success permeates culture, just brought up
Caanan (03:37)
Yeah.
Kent (03:39)
so many ideas of things we could talk about. And
Kent (03:45)
We weren't surprised because that's the whole point of leading this season with talk of fulfillment because it's everywhere around us. And this idea of success, we have so many personal stories related to it. And we're trying to tell more personal stories. And some weeks it's really, you know, we always have a lot of stories that pertain to a topic. Some weeks it's sort of tough to figure out, which one should we talk about? This week we have.
Kent (04:14)
so many stories that pertain to the idea of success as it relates to fulfillment that we realize, okay, we're each gonna do a mini story. Because there's too many stories to just tell one. Yeah. Of how we're, you know, bombarded with this
Kent (04:32)
Templated idea of success that so many people buy into. So, anyhow, we were heading to some new friends' house for dinner. I'm gonna try to keep this quick because we're each doing a story. We're driving up to the house. It's like the cutest imaginable neighborhood, cutest imaginable block. Just really a nice place. So being trying to be decent people, when we get in their house, the first thing we say is, my gosh, you know, you live in such a
Kent (05:00)
A cute area in this this street is adorable. And immediately one of the people launches into telling us what work everybody in every one of the houses did.
Caanan (05:15)
I'm giving a big sigh.
Kent (05:17)
Yeah. The Paul over there is the VP of whatever at Amazon. His wife works for a Seattle Children's Hospital. That
Kent (05:28)
Blue house next to it and and that was that. When it was done, it was like that was that was what was believed to be the appropriate response. Caanan, it was you. It was you who made that big thanks for having us over. You live in such a adorable block. They gave this three minute spiel on the jobs of everybody in the neighborhood, and everybody just acted like that's a normal thing to do. Yeah.
Caanan (05:57)
normal response. And to the point of this episode, it kind of is in our culture.
Kent (06:01)
It kind of is. Sure.
Caanan (06:03)
Yeah. Okay, so I have another story as you teased that is also about a an experience with a friend. Yeah.
Kent (06:10)
Can I interrupt you really quick?
Kent (06:12)
I I do have to say, because Caanan and I never want to talk about like we don't like nice things or talk out of both sides of our mouth because we do like nice things, we have nice things, but talking about the material riches of success, all that stuff, is the least interesting thing to us.
Kent (06:37)
So we appreciate nice houses, we appreciate nice neighborhoods, we appreciate great jobs. Heck, we cut our teeth, helping people with their jobs, helping work groups do better at their jobs. We have nothing against that. We're just talking about centering these ideas of success in how you relate to the world.
Caanan (06:57)
Yes. And and being aware that these templated ideas of success even exist and that you're participating in them. Okay, my story.
Kent (07:08)
Yes.
Caanan (07:09)
So I too will keep it quick, but we were downtown having drinks with some friends. We'd taken the bus downtown. Seattle is a wonderful city for walking and mass transit. So we try to do that.
Caanan (07:24)
Our Seattle ad.
Caanan (07:26)
I know.
Caanan (07:26)
Every episode we're plugging Seattle. It's just a really nice city. Anyway. So we took the bus downtown, had drinks with these friends and great time. getting ready to leave, one of the friends said, I'm heading back to the neighborhood 'cause they live nearby. you wanna just jump a ride with me? of course. That's really nice. So we jump in, our friend's
Caanan (07:56)
Very nice car. Yeah. I'm talking like a hundred thousand dollar car. Sure. Easily. didn't
Kent (08:02)
Plus, yeah, for sure. didn't think anything of it.
Caanan (08:07)
think even thing of it. It's just a nice car. You noticed that.
Kent (08:10)
And
Kent (08:10)
you now know that we like nice cars.
Caanan (08:13)
We like nice things and happen to live in a very nice part of a very nice city. So that tracks with where we live. But we get in the car, conversation turns to Kent and I's lifestyle, because it often does, because our lifestyle is unique. This no vacation required life we've created. And the the friend who's driving says, Gosh, you guys, I wish
Caanan (08:43)
My husband and I could do what you guys do, but I just don't think we could ever afford it.
Kent (08:49)
Yeah.
Caanan (08:52)
Crickets. because listen, I know people can have very expensive things and not have a lot of money. Yeah. We understand how credit works. We live in the United States. That's like par for the course. But that is not the case here. These friends are very well off and they're surrounded by what I'm gonna call the trappings of a very expensive lifestyle.
Caanan (09:22)
And the gag is our lifestyle, our no vacation required lifestyle is just the opposite of that.
Kent (09:33)
In everything we've done, in our personal lives and as sought-after business and career development consultants, we've learned one consistent thing. Most people just don't know themselves. NovacationRequired.com is where we talk about how you too can build a life that you don't need to break from and how it all starts with knowing yourself. There you'll find all of our podcast episodes, information on services, and the scoop on us. And to really raise the bar,
Kent (10:01)
We model this as a couple to show that a relationship doesn't have to be a compromise or a counterproductive union. When two people are each doing their own work, the heightened connection becomes a shortcut to building a no vacation required life.
Caanan (10:18)
Okay, so I have to keep going with this story about the friend in their very expensive car who said they can't afford to live the lifestyle that Kent and I can live, which ironically requires significantly less money. But I actually in thinking about this and Kent and you and I talking about it, I I don't think the the real issue here was this person actually thinking they couldn't afford our lifestyle.
Kent (10:47)
Exactly. Yeah.
Caanan (10:48)
I think that's an easy thing to to have in your brain. But I think the real issue is this person couldn't imagine our lifestyle and their current idea of success because they are living the shared dream of success. Yeah. They are they have nailed it. Yeah.
Kent (11:13)
This is why I like the story that you shared, because it just shows that it's about the way we're wired to operate. On paper, and be sure to tune in next week because we're gonna talk about money specifically. But on paper, this couple could do anything they wanted to do. Yeah. But you have this idea, this is what success looks like.
Kent (11:42)
you can't imagine anything else. I'm actually going to surprise Caanan, with something we didn't talk about talking about because as he was sharing his thoughts, this came to mind. We were on the hike on the hike. We were on a hike the other day, and we got into a a we got to chatting with a woman and another avid hiker. So we were kind of trail buddies. And
Kent (12:11)
You were just talking about the places we've all seen around
Caanan (12:18)
It's where the conversation always goes.
Kent (12:20)
What's
Kent (12:21)
interesting, and Caanan, and I have not even talked about this. So I wish we were video podcasting so you could see Kanan's reaction. She started to insert a lot of this like, well, that's what you get to do when you're retired. And and I was thinking, you know, yeah, this is how the world works. You work yourself crazy, raise families.
Kent (12:51)
Buy houses, sell houses, have lots of tribulations, hopefully lots of joy. And then you retire and you get to do what you want to. But it was driving me crazy. so she's going to Norway for three weeks and and just being trying to be good people. One of us said, like, wow, three weeks in Norway, that'll be amazing. And she said, Well, that's what you get to do when you're retired. So it becomes this sort of like.
Kent (13:21)
This is what you get when you're successful. So interestingly, and Kane and I'm I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. We, as we kept hiking and talking about places she'd been, you know, she'd be like, you've got to go to Patagonia. And we were like, actually, we've been there. Finally, we kind of broke her schema enough that she was like, Wait, you guys have been to a lot of places. And, you know, we appear, I think.
Kent (13:50)
younger than we are, and we certainly don't appear retirement age, but she was so confused. It was almost like, wait, how have you been to all these places? And there was a definite edge of irritation in her voice, because this isn't the way this is supposed to work. These two guys who are a couple decades younger than me. Yep. Have been to more places than I've been to.
Kent (14:20)
So thinking of the story you told, yeah, about the people who could really do whatever they wanted to with all their money, including live the life we're living, this retired woman being bothered that she, you know, let us know she had all this success, which enabled her and her husband to have all these great experiences. They can't imagine doing it a different way.
Caanan (14:42)
you what's crazy is
Caanan (14:44)
I just wrote down, tapped out with my Apple pencil here, the word lack of creativity. Because you've said this in the past in different episodes about people's sort of lack of creativity when it comes to thinking about things like success and the like. But this is the this is the problem. This is what this woman is facing. She can't see that another way might be possible. So she's shocked and maybe a little frustrated.
Caanan (15:11)
That even in our conversation, things aren't playing out to the script. Yes. It's breaking her brain. But you know what? This is also, I wrote lack of creativity down because this applies to our friends with the hundred thousand dollar plus car and the beautiful house in our beautiful neighborhood. They can't imagine living our lifestyle despite having quite a bit of resources.
Caanan (15:40)
Because they can't imagine not living their current lifestyle, which is what they deem to be successful. So they can't they can't live our lifestyle because they can't give up their current lifestyle, which is a very expensive lifestyle. And it's a lack of creativity. It's a lack of thinking. Wait, I don't if I want what Kent and Caanan, have, the freedom and the ability to travel and the
Caanan (16:09)
the ability to the the way they own their time, which is what most people are attracted to when they learn about our life.
Kent (16:15)
Yeah, that we prioritize freedom, we are prioritize time together, yeah. Making a difference, doing good work. Yeah.
Caanan (16:21)
Yes.
Caanan (16:21)
They can't figure out how to do what we're doing because they can't see past their current idea of success, which is a very expensive c it's a trap that they're in. Yeah. So they they're trying to figure out how to do what we do without giving up their current lifestyle, not understanding that their current lifestyle is the problem.
Kent (16:43)
Yeah, so the dramatic turn things took when I thought of this hike. Now I'm fixated on this hike. Yeah. You talking made me think also back to that hike and this person was referencing her adult children and their coming of age, but basically talking about their life in terms of the obstacles, saying things like, Well, they're at that age where
Kent (17:12)
They can't do this. They're at that age where they can't do this. And, you know, like everybody else, funny, like the example I shared at the top of the episode, we had to learn what the kids and the spouses do for work, which drives me crazy. Yeah. but yet well, essentially I'll just tell you, the kids or one of the kids was going with their spouse to an an absurdly
Kent (17:42)
Quick trip to Europe. And it was like, well, she's she's 35. She just started a job. She can't do that. And it's like, yes, she can. Like, I know she has certain constraints by the life she's chosen. Yes. Right. Here too, another example. amazingly impressive life. But she's made these choices. So here we've got.
Kent (18:12)
The senior citizen retired mom talking woefully about the two daughters because they're stuck in these upwardly mobile, successful lives, and they can't join us in Europe for three weeks. They can only come for five days. And it's just like I know, like you're saying, I know this is true. It is true. It is the dream of the planet.
Kent (18:41)
This woman is literally living out our episode two, The Dream of Your Family and Friends, and living out our current episode three on success, like the idea of success. Struggle, struggle, struggle, but be impressive the entire time you're doing it, which will afford you no freedom. And then by the time you're probably not physically able to do it, you'll be able to have whatever kind of life you want.
Caanan (19:11)
Thanks for listening. We'd be honored if you'd subscribe, like, and share. It means the world to us.
Caanan (19:19)
Okay, so I want to go back to the part where you were talking about the woman who we talked to on the hike's daughter. Boy. Go to our website so you can see a flowchart of all the people we're talking about.
Kent (19:33)
didn't
Kent (19:33)
expect to talk about. And it's so funny. I just have to throw this in there. So yeah, we'll listen to podcasts. I think I've said this before, and people are throwing people under the bus, right and left, their relatives. I'm like, I am terrified to name a person who we will never see again. You know, because
Caanan (19:58)
Yeah
Caanan (19:58)
I mean
Kent (20:02)
We're
Kent (20:02)
but we're always like people are kind of impressed and they want to know more about our story. So we're like, go to NovacationRequired dot com and you know, we we do our services at thechangelaboratory dot com. So I'm always terrified that one of these innocent people we've met is gonna click on our podcast and be like, hiking on the Snow Lake trail. Wait, that was me. Yeah. And we're gonna like screw them up forever. But yeah. Yes, Cain and take it back to that woman's one of those one daughter of that one.
Caanan (20:31)
Woman.
Caanan (20:32)
It's nice. I think it's good that we're cautious about that. So few people are on the interwebs these days. But okay, this woman's daughter, you just you mentioned that, you know, this woman, this daughter, had made choices to live the lifestyle that she is living. And that is a hundred percent true. And we are all making choices to live a certain lifestyle, to
Caanan (21:00)
Adhere to an idea of success that has been largely sort of prescribed to us, or that is so predominant in the culture that we actually don't even know we're adhering to a script. Yeah, and so immersed. And so I just wanted to talk about essentially the word choice there because that is true. We are all making these choices. Kent and I are making choices every day. And trust me, we have to journal about this stuff because
Caanan (21:30)
These are not easy choices to live the lifestyle we live, although it's much easier now because we've been reaping the benefits for so long, we can't imagine going back to a more traditional life. But we are still forced daily to look at whether or not something actually matters to us, whether or not something that is being prescribed to us or being told to us is the measure of success that we are not interested in.
Caanan (22:00)
We have to fight the urges to
Caanan (22:04)
To fall in line. Yeah. And so we're constantly having to ask, does that matter to us?
Kent (22:09)
Yeah.
Caanan (22:11)
d are we gonna look weird? Should
Kent (22:12)
Yeah.
Caanan (22:13)
we comply in this weird way? The answer is almost always no. But you sh in you know, if I were to open my journal, you would just see lots of entries of me saying like, Are we the weird one?
Kent (22:24)
Yeah, to me it's a self judgment thing. We have this higher knowledge about ourselves and all this stuff, but when we're surrounded by it and you have that feeling like I this doesn't feel good. This is not the dream I'm living, this is not the dream we're living. A lot of that self judgment comes in because you can't help but think in flashes. Wait.
Kent (22:54)
We are really working against the crowd. But yeah, it's funny you mentioned journaling, like all these great things to get back to center and get regulated and get back into self. It's not that big of a deal. And and I think I was telling you last week, like just knowing believing in doing the right thing for me, for us, and just the right thing in general far surpasses any of that.
Kent (23:24)
Upset. Yeah. We may have talked about this in last week's podcast. Far exceeds that upset of yeah, we're gonna look like the weirdos, we're not doing this right. Another opportunity for us to get, you know, singled out with wait, how do you how do you do that? How exactly does that work? You know, all those kinds of questions that we don't wanna entertain because it's not up for public debate.
Caanan (23:51)
Yeah. You know, doing the right you said doing the right thing, and you're absolutely right. We've talked about that before. It does feel much better than complying and getting the little dopamine hits of people admiring you for playing the part. Yes. Right. They like you because you have a nice car, whatever it is.
Caanan (24:11)
I think that doing the right thing is maybe more accurately following your values. So knowing what actually matters to you,
Kent (24:23)
Yeah.
Caanan (24:24)
and then making choices and aligning your decisions with what actually matters to you and not what you've been prescribed to care about. But it's I I said earlier, like you have to ask yourself, does this matter to me?
Caanan (24:38)
I actually don't even think that's enough because I think we're so steeped in this culture. Yeah. in this idea of success that is so bizarrely far away from what actually matters to most people. That you've got to like really drill in. Yeah. Really keep going keep going deeper down the hole because you've got to figure out not just does this matter to me, like w why am I even considering something that might be against my values?
Kent (25:07)
Yeah, completely. We talk so much about how all of this stuff is very personal. It's an internal job, yeah. We say. Yeah. Not about external fixes, not about external opinions. So as we were talking about before this episode, your idea of success is all about saying, I get to choose what success means to me. And you and I've worked on this.
Kent (25:34)
For now, a couple decades. We've worked with clients on this a lot. And to be able to not hear that noise, like, what do you mean I get to choose? Like, I don't even know. I don't even know what other options there are other than to strive for the things everybody else is striving for. So yeah, this first bundle of episodes on fulfillment walk right back to our core truth.
Kent (26:02)
From these 20 years, which is if you don't know yourself, you if you don't know yourself, you're not gonna have the power to think of anything other than the dream of the planet. You're not gonna have the power to set your friends and family straight about why you're doing what you want to do. You're not gonna have the power to have a different version of success because the noise.
Kent (26:28)
The noise of this templated dream will always be far more intense than that. That little inner you that's trying to get out. And only when you honor that inner you by figuring out what in the heck that inner you is, will this begin to flourish and grow. And
Caanan (26:47)
You know, as we often say, we're not against nice things. We like nice things. Maybe you do want the title. Maybe you actually do. Yeah. Maybe you do want a really nice car. Maybe that actually matters to you. I think it ultimately matters a lot less to a lot of people than they think it does. And if you know yourself and drill down and say, Okay, I want this really nice car, but what is this keeping me from having if I'm going to afford this?
Caanan (27:17)
If I'm going to maintain this lifestyle that I think I want, what am I giving up for this? I think a lot of people would choose something different. But my point is, maybe you do want those things. And if you know yourself and you consider other options, you might land right there. But then then great. Then your decisions align with your values and you won't feel like, I wish I had Kent and Caanan's life. You'll be happy with your own life.
Kent (27:45)
Mm-hmm.
Caanan (27:46)
Mm-hmm.
Caanan (27:52)
You have a mailbag question?
Kent (27:54)
Mailbag I feel like we need a sound
Kent (27:56)
effect. Let's work on
Caanan (27:58)
Okay. I'll search for one.
Kent (28:02)
I'm just doing this from memory. I was sitting here during the break scrambling to find this email we got. I think it was related to the last episode. I'm not sure. It could have been a prior season, but this person basically says that d we reference, and I think it was in our last episode, episode two, in this fulfillment bundle where we talk about.
Kent (28:31)
when it's important to disappoint other people.
Caanan (28:33)
I love that yeah.
Kent (28:36)
That we talk about, you know, we're always having to deal with the look and the irritation because we don't do things the same as a lot of people do things because we have this different model. So the person was asking, like, give an example of how that shows up in kind of everyday interactions. And something that happened very recently came to mind. So this is just the most basic example. But
Kent (29:05)
We're with people after a string of super nice days in Seattle. Somebody mentions the nice days and wanting to be able to take advantage of them more. We talk about being able to drop everything and going on a hike. So it's immediately like, Wait, how can you drop everything and go on a hike?
Kent (29:31)
You know the time I'm talking about. So it's that kind of stuff, like where we'll casually say, like, gosh, you we know it was so nice, it was you know, eighty-four and so clear, we just hopped in the car and went out and did and it's like, wait, this isn't appreciated, you know.
Caanan (29:51)
W not happy for you.
Kent (29:53)
Yeah. So we give a lot of high minded examples of things, but that's just kind of an everyday thing. How how freedom. Yes.
Caanan (30:01)
Shows up how controlling our time.
Kent (30:03)
Yeah,
Kent (30:04)
and we are very aware, especially lately, more on that in the future, but we are very aware of how lucky we are to be able to have have the ability to live a life that a lot of people don't or can't or whatever. We do not take it for granted. We do not talk about these things flippantly. Actually, we don't like to talk about them because we hate some of the feedback.
Kent (30:30)
mostly nonverbal that we can get. But that's an example of how this shows up. Like, you did, did you? Right.
Caanan (30:40)
Yeah.