Energy Management vs. Time Management – Why Are We Still Doing That?
No Vacation Required
Why Are We Still Scheduling by the Clock?
In a culture that treats productivity like a math problem, we often find ourselves cramming our calendars full only to end the day completely drained. In this episode, we break down why the tradition of scheduling strictly by the clock is outdated and how "intuitive scheduling" can help you build a life you don't need a break from.
From a surprising "JOMO" moment regarding World Cup tickets to the internal fear that "stuff won't get done" without rigid structure, this episode explores energy-based flow. Whether you are a "schedule guy" by nature or someone struggling to stop checking emails on vacation, learn how to align your daily tasks with your natural internal rhythm.
Onward and Inward,
SUPPORT NO VACATION REQUIRED:
If this episode helped you find a bit of clarity today, please leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube! It is the best way to help our message reach more people.
Subscribe: Never miss an episode by hitting the follow button on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts
Follow us on Instagram
CHAPTERS:
(00:00) Why are we still doing that?
(00:49) Mind Share: The Seattle FIFA "Glow Up" and a lesson in JOMO
(05:33) The "I'll sleep when I'm dead" myth
(06:54) Why we get defensive about balance
(11:53) Freedom vs. Corporate / Military sensibilities
(14:10) Scheduled Flexibility: How to use a calendar without losing your soul
(19:37) Tips for Intuitive Energy Management
(25:43) Worth the Time: Industry (HBO series review)
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Energy over Hours: Productivity isn't just about how much time you spend; it’s about the quality of energy you bring to the task.
Know Yourself: You cannot schedule intuitively if you don't understand your own wiring, strengths, and how you naturally recharge.
Optimal Mapping: Shift creative work to the morning and use "power 20-minute sessions" to tackle tasks without burnout.
The Power of "No": Sometimes the choice you are most proud of is what you choose not to do, even when it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Kent: Most of us read our calendars like a packing contest, trying to cram as many things into a day as possible. We've been sold the idea, or convinced ourselves, that productivity is a math problem. More hours equals more output. But if we leave each day completely drained, knowing deep down that we're fighting our own bodies just to show up, why are we still scheduling by the clock? Welcome to the No Vacation Required podcast, where we break down tired traditions and outdated thinking by asking the question, why are we still doing that? It's all about building a life you don't need a break from, being more present and fulfilled, and showing up in a complicated world that needs your voice and unique talents. Caanan, what is on your mind this week?
Caanan: Well, you know, we've been talking about FIFA coming to Seattle.
Kent: Formerly known as "F-I-F-A" until we were at a retail shop recently and somebody was like, "Are you guys excited for FIFA?" and we were like, poor person can't even pronounce it. Come to learn it's FIFA, so it's FIFA. If you go back and listen to us talking about what we now correctly call FIFA, we've been schooled. But what's on your mind about some FIFA? It makes sense to hear.
Caanan: Um, well, I thought this was a fun update because we have talked about in this podcast about being excited. You know, the company's coming and the city's going to be all rejuved.
Kent: The city's got its glow up. Yeah, I forgot we talked about that.
Caanan: And we love that vibe. You know, we've been to the Olympics before, and it's just kind of a fun vibe to be around. So we're looking forward to it, all the politics of FIFA aside. And we got an email the other day with a special, you know, last minute second chance get ticket email.
Kent: Yeah. Because we had signed up for a ticket drop and I kind of like the Taylor Swift nightmare of the Eras Tour, completely botched it and all that. So we got that second chance email. It was a very special window of time. We had like two hours.
Caanan: So we planned to click through, got there, there were tickets available. We chose to add a few to our cart. And we were shocked.
Kent: This is such a good one. We were like kids in a candy store. We were like, we'll get this game in Seattle and this game in Seattle. We couldn't believe they let us get more than one game of tickets.
Caanan: No, we were really psyched for it. But then as we were sitting there, you know, we added a few to the cart and we were clicking around to see what else was available. And I don't know, something just came over.
Kent: Yeah, it came over me. This should actually be what's on my mind, or you sound like you're bragging because it's a what's on your mind. Because the truth is, yes, they were in the cart. I was ready to transact. We were trying to decide if we wanted more tickets. I was like, we're good. Should we do it? And you, the bigger soccer fan of the two of us, was like, "Nope." Nope. We always do what we ebb and flow. We lean into certain things; we do not lean into certain things. And something came over you where you were like, "We can afford this, we have the time, but I just don't want to do this. I want us to be one of those things that we don't go." And I was kind of shocked. I mean, not like we're soccer fanatics, but again, we're excited about this.
Caanan: It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to a World Cup game that we could literally walk to. But yeah, I don't know. I had a moment of clarity—a JOMO moment—and I thought, I want to be part of the milieu, if you will, of FIFA, but I don't actually want to be in the stadium. I don't want to pay these exorbitant prices. I don't want to participate in that way. So it was an interesting moment of clarity, and I'm really glad we didn't buy those tickets. And I'm proud of us. You know, sometimes it's what you choose not to do that is what you're most proud of. So I felt really good about that. And Kent, you immediately, as soon as I said it, you were like, "Ah, yeah, I'm with you."
Kent: Yeah, but don't give me any awards because I was still like, as the cursor was closer to the X, like, "Are you sure? Once in a lifetime experience. Okay, are you sure? No, for real. Are you sure? Sure."
Caanan: I was being tested. The universe was testing me.
Kent: Okay, so I'm so excited about this series of podcast episodes that we have coming up because we're talking about balance. You and I have a huge relationship with balance. When we started doing core values as a couple—a whole other story, we won't even get into that today—balance was one of our core values. I remember when people used to be like, "Balance? I'll have balance when I'm dead."
Caanan: Oh, don't even get me started.
Kent: Yeah. I used to be like, you know, see it in the brightest, best light possible. What do you mean balance? Like varied, not exhausted, lots of perspective. But the minute you start to talk about balance, people get super defensive, including us.
Caanan: It's funny, I'm sitting here thinking, why is that? Because everybody claims to want the positive outcomes that balance brings. But you're right, you start talking about balance and regulating and things like this, and people start getting real twitchy.
Kent: Well, I've got a theory, and that's why I was the one that proposed this topic for the moment. Our last series was on reader emails, which is so much fun. And something I took from so many of the emails we got is that a lot of these things people are talking about are balance issues. A lot of things we hear about in the work we do—from friends, loved ones—are balance issues. And something very specific to balance is energy management. So I think this is why, to answer your question, wherever there's a touchy nerve or two, it's because we know we're not being our best selves. I think people get real sensitive around this. And I was excited about this first week's topic, energy management, and asking, why are we still scheduling by the clock? Because this is an area that you and I are so intrigued by. We are—I was going to say schedule guys through and through, but yeah, dear listener, that would be a lie. We like a schedule. We are not fly by the seat of our pants, but we're not strict schedule guys either at all. We dig flexibility and we see in all facets of our lives that this focus, I think especially since the last decade, the last administration, since the pandemic, people's focus on energy management and self care and all these things has skyrocketed. And we really appreciate that. And specifically, we really appreciate this idea of intuitive scheduling. So this is an area where we are kind of students. We are both intuitive guys, big fans of balance, but we're also schedule guys. So it's kind of fun for us to see where schedule meets intuition.
Caanan: So you just described balance. Like we are schedule guys. We do like having things planned out. I especially like the structure; it works for my unique style. We have the same personality type, but...
Kent: How about this word: consistency.
Caanan: Oh yeah. We love consistency. I especially like that and actually need it for my own regulation. But we do appreciate flexibility and we have been working to be more flexible and more intuitive, moving with the flow of our energy more and more. And I just wanted to point out two things. One, you said like the whole "I'll sleep when I'm dead" thing earlier. And it's so funny you brought that up because I was just thinking about it. I was in the shower thinking because somebody had just said that.
Kent: I think I said it in a recent podcast. It like gave you a headache.
Caanan: Oh, it sent me. It totally sent me. Yeah, I think maybe there was a time when "I'll sleep when I'm dead" was like cute and clever and made a little sense. I don't know. But post-pandemic, who really still believes that? I mean, if you're saying I'll sleep when I'm dead, you'll probably get to sleep soon because that is so basic and unhealthy. Anyway, the other thing I was thinking is that we're trying to do this intuitive scheduling, moving with the flow of our energy more and more. And something that immediately comes to me is that we actually have built a life where we can make that happen because so many people just can't. Their time is not their own. Their energy isn't their own. So I think at a fundamental level, you have to look like: Am I adopting corporate military sensibilities with my own life where I don't have to? Probably, yes, because we all kind of are. That's the culture we live in. But also, do I have an option to not do that because my time and energy are not actually my own?
Kent: Okay. I was thinking about what you said—that with our vacation-required life, it's all about freedom. We built a life where we're able to do what we love every day.
Caanan: That's the value proposition of our life. Right down to the core.
Kent: And that's why this concept is so intriguing. We appreciate this idea of intuitive energy management and we've got the ability, but A plus B equals five because somehow it doesn't matter fully to us. I think this journey that you and I have been on is really interesting because we know ourselves as individuals and a couple well enough to know that scheduling—not strict scheduling, but scheduling consistency—works best in our household. What's funny though, if you saw our schedule, there's actually a lot to it. Like, no two days are the same, period, but we have a lot of consistency in a week. Sorry, a lot of consistency in a month, but days are very balanced, varied, robust. But we definitely like cadence. So as you said, we've had all the ability to do this. We see the energy being zapped in our clients and loved ones. So it's kind of an interesting place for you and I because we will always hold on to what we're meant to do based on our wiring. But we appreciate this. We see the value in this. So we do things to lean more into it.
Caanan: Yeah. What's funny to me is if somebody actually did look at our schedule—if they literally opened up our MacBooks and looked at our calendar—we look crazy. It is very full. It is very detailed. But if you really dive into it, you'll see that we schedule a lot of flexibility. It sounds kind of like the two things don't make sense together—scheduled flexibility—but they do. A lot of our schedule is filled with things that are not high pressure, or we're scheduling time to not work for sure, or blocking out time for rest. So it's kind of funny. That's what works well for us, but we're trying to be even more in the flow of our energy. We just happen to understand that the structure and the consistency works very well for us. So we'll actually schedule out some of that, if that makes any sense. But listen, I understand why this is difficult for people because it's difficult for us and for me. When it comes to this idea of just intuitive energy management, something that I worry about is that if I don't have a schedule, stuff won't get done because I have this internal fear that if I just go with the flow, go with my energy, I won't do the work. And I think a lot of people carry that internal fear, whether or not it's based in reality at all, that if they don't adhere to this very sort of corporate idea of rigor around schedule, they won't get stuff done.
Kent: Yeah, we talk in our book about one that always sticks to me—people doing emails at night.
Caanan: Yes, I was just going to say that. I think this internal fear is unfounded because what we actually see is people doing just the opposite. They have completely disordered ideas of their time and energy and they're working in the middle of the night. They're saying things like, "I'll sleep when I'm dead." They don't even take time to feed themselves or nourish their bodies because they're so consumed with the idea of productivity and getting stuff done that they think if they let this all go, they'll fall apart. This stupid internal fear that I still carry.
Kent: Back to where we started. I think this is why this is such a trigger topic for so many people. And when we start talking about, "Oh, I just put it aside, I couldn't deal with it anymore," the mentality that everybody has is, "No, you push through." I would say a majority of the corporate clients we work with and people we know just in general are doing work email at night. It's sort of like, "Email when I'm quote-unquote on the clock? No, that's something I do at night to wind down, or I do at night when I'm second screening." So when you start to defeat that, people get real screwed up because it's like, "No, this is my version of balance, haha, and this is how I feel like I'm keeping up and competing."
Caanan: Yeah, you just reminded me. I got in touch with a client the other day, just sent off a follow-up email and got an out-of-office from the client that said they were on vacation for the next two weeks and would be out of touch. And I was like, oh, that's so great. I didn't know they were going on vacation, but I'm so glad they did. And then I got an email back right in this period where they should have been, or are, in the middle of their vacation saying, "Sorry, it took me a little while to get back in touch. I'm on vacation." And I was like, Girl, what are you doing?
Kent: You said to me, "I won't hear from blank because they're on vacation," and then a couple days later you talked about hearing from them. And I said, "Wait a minute, you told me blank had on their email that they were gone."
Caanan: Yeah. I couldn't believe it. And I was like, oh, this is so what the world is now. And it just made me sad. I had to just email back, "Please forget this for now."
Kent: I really want to talk about why we're still scheduling by the clock and things that you and I do as works in progress. Hopefully some things in here will spark ideas in you, because I think in this time in the world, we really need to be focused on balance and energy management.
Caanan: So you're thinking, well, great. I need to start intuitive scheduling based on my energy. Well, how do I do that? Well, we have some tips. And the first one is a repeat of something we say—hopefully we've said in every podcast—because it is fundamental to "No Vacation Required." And that is: know yourself. There's no real intuition if you don't know yourself. You can't just decide today that you're going to intuitive schedule if you haven't figured out who you are and how you flow. So that's where you start.
Kent: Yeah, that's so funny. I didn't even know you were going to say that. And I'm thinking like, literally in most personality assessments and the one we rely on with our clients, one of the core things is you learn about: are you more scheduled or are you more spontaneous? And it's so surprising how many people we know are actually working against their type because if they're spontaneous, they think they should be scheduled. If they're scheduled, they think they should be spontaneous. So knowing who you are confirms: okay, this is my makeup. Why am I going to fight who I am?
Caanan: So do that. Figure out yourself, figure out how you refuel, figure out how you recharge, figure out if you're planful or scheduled or fly by the seat of your pants. Whatever's natural to you, and then you can actually try to make that happen in your life.
Kent: For sure. I have two things written down here. This is really fun to come up with because again, we're on this journey too. And just take these as suggestions if you're wondering about your own energy management and sanity and if you want to quit being entirely scheduled by the clock. We know a couple basic things are true; they've been proven in research and we follow these couple of things on our own journey. Number one: doing your most creative things earlier in the day.
Caanan: Oh yeah. That was a big shift for us.
Kent: Yeah. You've got all this great, bright energy compared to the energy you're going to have later in the day compared to the energy you're going to have after you read the news. So doing your most creative things in the morning and being able to say, if you didn't get to them in the morning, don't try cramming creative things in later in the day because your brain just isn't optimized that way. With that, in terms of optimal energy mapping, is realizing that your willpower, your focus, and concentration is limited. So something we've also gotten really good at is switching things up. Long gone are the days of "I'm going to spend all day doing this." I would say if something gets to the two-hour mark for either one of us, or if we're working on a project together, that's a limit. And I would say more and more we both are very comfortable with the hour, hour-and-a-half zone because you need to dedicate time to get into something.
Caanan: Yeah. Or you get in flow and you need time for that.
Kent: I'll say too that many things are just like power 20-minute things. I've become very good at having big tasks that I'll just say, "I'm going to do a power 20-minute session on that today." So no longer trying to do the whole thing or half of it, or even a quarter of it, just a power 20-minute session. Anything else you want to say?
Caanan: Yeah, I have one because I think it's so important and it's something that as a culture we've let go. I just mentioned that people aren't taking the time to eat.
Kent: Talk about energy.
Caanan: And I think it's so important. It sounds so basic, but to have nutrition as part of your energy management—that you take the time to eat nourishing food before you're starving.
Kent: Completely. You are really a leader of that in our household. We'll often say like, "Okay, I've got to shake up my energy. I've got to grab a protein shake." I'm going to make us a protein shake or do something where you recognize, "Okay, I need to move my energy on. And part of that is nourishing myself. My stomach is growling, Caanan. That means I need something to eat." That's such a great point.
Caanan: Yeah. And it's actually not terribly intuitive because your impulse or my impulse is often to just push through that feeling because we want to be more productive. So you have to kind of force that until it becomes intuitive. So basic, but important. I had a pretty big mindshare, my FIFA mindshare. So Kent, why don't you take Worth the Time this week? And I have no idea what you're going to bring up, so I'm excited to hear.
Kent: My instinct was, oh, it's FIFA. No, it's FIFA. I do have a Worth the Time. I'm going to keep it short and sweet and insistent. If you haven't been watching this series "Industry" for the last four years...
Caanan: Oh my God.
Kent: Just watch it. Be confused. Be galled.
Caanan: Be titillated.
Kent: Titillated. Be shocked. Be all of it. Another one of those shows where I was like, how is this not registering with more people? Reviewers like the New Yorker call it out as spectacular under the radar, but it's just so good.
Caanan: It's so good. It's so dark and nihilistic and sexy and bothering. And it does not suffer fools. So it's not—you cannot second screen that show or you will be so lost. So dedicate some time and energy.
Kent: This is a show too—don't jump in now. You need to go back to the beginning. Season one. Take the whole journey with us. Thanks for listening to the No Vacation Required podcast. For more information, including services designed to help you build a life you don't need a break from, check out novacationrequired.com. And if you found this information helpful, please subscribe.